Panel · 9:40 AM · Thursday, May 14, 2026
Thank you again for coming back and giving your time. It's the most valuable thing that you can offer because you can never get it back. Rohan and I will be back throughout the morning. Right now, we'll invite Saurabh, Tom, Rita, Matthew, and Sameer to kick us off. Death by a thousand AI cuts. I mean pilots.
Hi, Rita. Nice to meet you.
Good to meet you.
It's great to meet you.
How's everyone? So we've got a fantastic panel here. I think the topic of the discussion is death by 1,000 cuts. No, death by 1,000 AI POCs. And how do we get hopefully beyond that? But as we get going, maybe if we can start from Tom and just sort of quickly introduce yourselves, name rank, serial number, but also, as you are introducing yourself, tell us one thing that really sort of excited you or shocked you about AI over the last three months or so.
Sure, thanks Saurabh. So Tom Klein, I lead WNS's finance and accounting business globally. So everything from front-end sales solution, transformation, all the technology consulting and delivery. So whatever we cook, we have to eat. And based in Little Rock, Arkansas, of all places, right? One thing, Saurabh, I'm thinking here. I don't know how many of you have seen the show Black Mirror and some of those episodes and what they're doing with robotics. And so I started watching a lot of these episodes and it got me thinking about robots. And then I started doing research into physical AI. And you start to move from, hey, AI is in a box or it's behind the screen to it's in a body. And you look at, like, what, well, Tesla's going to come with Optimus 2 in about a year for $20,000, and they'll do household chores. But now you have robots playing basketball, doing warehousing functions. And so for me, you know, while we're talking about AI and agentic AI, and it's going to be autonomous and do decisions, taking it out of the computer world to it's going to be a physical reality, and it's going to do more, kind of created one of those, you know, shock moments or nervous moments that it's not going to be behind my computer screen. It's going to be engaging with us on a day-to-day basis.
Yeah, I think that's all right. I think next year we'll be talking about how to physically AI or something, but that's really on the horizon. I don't know whether Optimus will do my chores by end of the year. I think Elon says that it will be $25K. If somebody can do dishwashing, you know. But Sameer.
So Sameer Shah from Chubb Insurance. I lead global finance transformation and shared services. Chubb, for those who don't know, is one of the largest insurance companies, multi-line, sell all kinds of insurance, operate in over 50 countries, over $50 billion, which brings with it its own unique set of challenges. In terms of excitement, actually, I think in a positive way, what I think I've been excited by is the speed of change and how quickly the capabilities have accelerated, right? Like we've been running ideas in terms of our core insurance business and all the things that are involved there underwriting and actuarial and such. Those ideas that were not working in October and November are now working, right? So I mean, for me, I've taken that in a very positive way. And just coincidentally, we're right in the middle of a five-year strategic planning process right now and have to rush and submit those plans today. But one of the things I'm challenging teams to do now and think about is, it's okay if you can't figure out exactly how you're going to get somewhere. And there's a little bit of leap of faith. But the speed of the capabilities and how quickly they're coming and how exponential it is, let's make that leap. We may not know today and how we'll do this, but fine. We'll know in three months from now. So that's how I've taken it. But to me, that's been pretty positive and exciting.
I think a finance professional talking about taking a leap of faith is pretty exciting. So that's great.
I'm Rita Scroggin. I'm the CEO and founder of Firstboard.io. We connect women technology leaders, board directors with innovative companies. Our members are at the forefront of AI, cybersecurity, innovation, technology in general. And I'm really excited about AI in the use cases for doing, to solving real problems. I read about the project Save the Breast, which is in partnership with Oracle, which I think is amazing. Definitely, you know, opportunities for cancer research. I mean, all these, you know, solving real problems, that's what I'm excited about. What I'm not so excited about is, and we talked about it yesterday, is Mithers, right? Which can basically, or has the potential to wipe out everyone's bank account and other more scary scenarios. So that keeps me up a little bit at night. Where is it going? We haven't seen the impact just yet. But I think there's opportunity and there's some scary scenarios and anywhere in between.
Fantastic. Matt?
Thanks. Yeah, so Matthew Rees. I work for JLL, which is a large global commercial real estate company in more than 80 countries with 130,000 staff. I run the shared services organization. I also have responsibility for our platform transformation as part of our Accelerate 2030 strategy. Two things for me. One positively that surprised me has been the adaptability of the teams in using the technology as it's put in front of them. I think the one shock in a more negative sense is like the mythical understanding that anybody really understands what the true cost of this thing is going to be yet. That's kind of, you know, a pretty big shock internally for me right now.
Yeah, I think the cost of tokens is completely obscure. And we had a big conversation around that. And I'm going to probe you on that a little bit more, Matt. But, you know, AI means different things to different people. We've got to, you know, whether in finance or GBS or, you know, even at the board level. What do you think is really the biggest missing piece as you look at your functional area when it comes to AI? And maybe, Rita, you're placing board members. What's the role of the board when it comes to AI?
I think the boardroom of the future will look completely different than it looks today, and that's really driven by AI because AI is changing companies, business models, and how we live. And I think the boards today are very traditional CFOs, CSOs, CEOs mainly. NASDAQ just did a study. They said, or what they found, is that a lot of boards said that the real core missing gap is the lack of AI and operating expertise. So I think there will be a lot of opportunities for everyone in the room, really, to join boards and bring their AI expertise to these boards. And I think public companies right now have a real urgency of bringing this to the boardroom. And for private companies, there's so much opportunity right now to grow, right? And to grow in all kinds of different areas to create new AI native companies. I think these companies also have an opportunity to add an independent board director early who can help them grow, who can help them understand the ecosystem, make connections to people like all of you in the room who are decision makers for driving innovation. So I think we're going to see a lot of change in the boardroom, and the key driver for that is AI, in my opinion.
And do you think the boards today are AI-ready?
No, no. I mean, I think a lot of traditional boards are not at all ready. They have people on boards who have been, you know, haven't been an operator for the last 10, 15 years. They're overboarded. They're sitting on six, seven, eight, nine boards. It's a nice sort of more retirement career. And I think right now speed is everything. And we talk about it all the time. We talk about it here. We talk about it. We were a community partner at a big AI conference. So speed matters. And that means boards need to be faster. They need to be more innovative. So I think the boardroom needs to change completely. That's my opinion.
Yeah. I don't know. That's interesting. Till now, we've talked about the C-level. Now we are at the board level. So let's see. Matt, you run a very large GBS organization. Global Business Services have been there forever for the last 30 years or so. And they've gone to eight different iterations of GBS maturity and whatnot. What does AI mean to GBS? Is it an enabler? A threat? By the way, we coined this term called generative business services. You know, I call it global business. They should be generated by design. But do you agree with that? What does AI mean for GBS?
I think it's both an existential threat and an existential opportunity. I think that, you know, the opportunity that AI presents itself in an operating environment to dramatically transform human productivity is phenomenal. And I know yesterday Manish spoke a lot about not focusing on kind of cost and productivity, but I think for anybody that's been running a global business service, you've spent the last couple of decades looking at driving human productivity, either through operational management or RPA solutions, et cetera. So this is a huge opportunity. I think the threat is around. There's an absolute sea, hundreds of thousands or a million roles that are going to be totally disintermediated in the next 18 to 24 months. And unless we focus on that operating model and really focus on what the next set of careers look like, we're going to have a lot of irrelevant skills, irrelevant people, and empty buildings in the global business service landscape. So it's both exciting but also a little scary. But I can't imagine a better time to be an operations leader with a large organization because you're building the yellow brick road for the first time, you know, since it began.
Since it began, yeah, fantastic. Sameer, what does AI mean for the CFO world?
I think the CFOs are still trying to figure that out, right? I think there's some, there's very, at this point, really very elementary use case. Oh yeah, I can write FP&A commentary, and I can process invoices, and fantastic. But the future of finance, I think, still needs to be figured out, right? If you kind of bring these technologies, et cetera, to their logical point, one of the things we've been looking at particularly is the controllership function. And like for insurance, our actuarial function. So what we're really saying is how much of AI can be inserted in core accounting and US GAAP reporting. And right, sure, I can put a close agent on top to facilitate some of the close and such. But again, kind of going back to like the talent question and the operating model question, I think it's a question that hasn't been answered. We are kind of falling into the answer, I would say, by our main focus in finance, we've been very crisp and I've been called brutal about it. It's like headcount reduction with some very aggressive targets. And what I've found is sort of an unfortunate discussion, and I don't joke about it, even though I just did, but it's brought clarity, actually, to the vision. Like what are you trying to do when you're inserting these technologies and tools in it? I'm replacing people. And I think that has gotten us away from itsy bitsy solutions on the fringe stuff, where I grabbed six hours of productivity here, one hour of productivity there. I'm like, no, I want the model to do what a junior actually does. I don't want it to automate one little report they write at the end of the month, and they're like, oh, I did a use case, but what's the benefit? Who knows? So that's how I'm approaching it. I'm replacing people. That's unfortunately what it is. But that has really accelerated our journey and kind of brought clarity on where to invest time and dollars.
Fantastic. Tom. But how is AI changing the BPO world?
It's a fundamental land shift. And my colleagues here would echo the points, right? There's a level of maturity that's not quite there. I think the CFOs that I engage with are very pragmatic, right? And being skeptical is a better word. They're still tying it to cost savings. I love Manish. I used to work with him. He's right. We've got to look at the value side of it in terms of revenue and how it improves the business. When we look at what we're doing, we are on this yellow brick road. I like that term. I'm going to use it to really create an autonomous world. Because I look at a lot of the AI that we have built, and it feels like it's hyperautomation, or it's some degree of intelligent automation on steroids, right? But have we really built out an action where a real agent does it? And we're trying to move towards we have persona-based agents, right? I have a controller agent. I have somebody who does cash apps and some of that and gets to where you have an integrated autonomous environment. So I think we're still in the design phase of that, just to be honest. And I've heard over and over the same challenges. Maybe the processes aren't right. We don't have the data right. We've got a legacy tech stack. We're not sure we know how to design a human in the loop world, all that in the operating model. So we invested in a platform that we call Agile Target Operating Model, Atom, and it has AI agents in it where we can ingest the client information to help design that transformation roadmap. Now, have we gotten to the point where we can design a human in the loop world on that? No. Have we been able to design based on process best practices? What are all of the digital interventions? What are all the control interventions? Can we provide a lot of automation? Yes. Can we get it to where these agents are truly autonomous? They're reasoning. They're making decisions. They have targets. They're operating at. Not quite yet. And we score all our agents, right, and say, how agentic are you? So it's a journey to be honest. And I think we're going to continue to take these steps, we'll have a couple of miscues, and then we'll grow. When the technology is just accelerating super quick, especially from a lot of the core ERP systems. And so, we're trying to marry that with what some of the other engagements are doing, what do we build, what do we leverage… we're on a journey.
Why doesn't anybody call BPO "BPO" anymore?
We've got to come up with a better name, you know, because we call it business process management, but you really aren't outsourcing anymore. Because, you know, we work with clients that have captive centers. Your work comes back and forth between the organizations. I have a consulting business that's doubling each year, helping clients design and transform their operations. So we got to come up with a better term for what it really is. So BPM for now. Yeah, kind of dull, right?
So let me get a little personal, if I may. Sameer, how, and I'll go through everyone, but Sameer, how has your role personally changed, or has it changed over the last 12 months or so in terms, because of AI?
Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting, right? I think I've had to, it's, I think, naturally happened. I think layers of ideator in chief, motivator in chief, I would say things like those have been added because kind of exciting organization, getting people to move over to the world, kind of charting that path. I think those have become very important, like even more so than before, like advisor to the executives and so on. Because people don't know the answer. You're ideating, you're trying to stay two steps ahead, the CEO, CFO, things like that. What, I think, is also interesting about my role is because I have both transformation and shared services, I'm on one hand kind of living in your world that I'm implementing in my own areas and I'm kind of using my own area, I'm frankly cannibalizing my own area to find more global transformation. Like where I've gone first is say that I'm reducing our current shared services footprint by 50% and I'm releasing those funds so I can do actually more global transformation. Then I'll rebuild it potentially at the end, which I actually haven't figured out what the shared services actually look like at the end of the transformation journey. So it's helped me kind of having both sides, both transformation and actual operational ownership. But yeah, I think all that other side, like I said, the idea guy, the motivation guy, moving the organization, telling the executives with some level of confidence what the answers are, I think all those aspects of the job have become much more important.
So it's added layers to your things and made it more complicated, it seems.
Actually, yes, but it's actually way more fun and exciting versus like "let's just get stuff done that we were in a year ago."
Matt, has the role of a GBS leader changed? What's your role in the enterprise AI strategy?
Yeah, definitely. I think over the last few years at JLL, it had been very much about scaling our global business services organization because there's a huge amount of value from efficient resources that could be gained there. But I think that story is pretty much dead. Now there's a requirement to really transform enterprise processes end-to-end and to think about how AI agents can help across those end-to-end processes. So the breadth of the role is definitely much broader than it was 18 months ago. But I think the outcomes are also more positive when we get it right, because we're not just looking at driving incremental efficiency in a part of the process that sits within our global business services organization, but really applying a root-to-tip or end-to-end transformation of the organization's enterprise processes. That's been kind of the ask and the requirement from the global executive board. And I think it's a big body of work over the next few years that we're going to have to eat up to get there. And that's going to mean the same breadth that I've had to take on. Many of our global business service leaders are having to take on because they're now becoming the process owners of the end-to-end process versus earlier when they were delivering an outcome.
So it's again like Sameer, I did many more layers.
For sure.
So Rita, throughout yesterday, we were talking about all these debts, process, people, technology, data. And we started to come up with new debts, imagination, leadership, and maybe there are five more. From your vantage point, because you're looking at this from a board level, what's really holding enterprises back? Because these are not new things. Everybody's been trying to digitally transform forever, and we're still struggling with this. What's really, from your perspective, holding enterprises back?
I think what we heard a lot about yesterday, that I think companies are focusing too much on operational efficiency and not enough on growth. How can we use AI to grow? Are there new ways of identifying the perfect customer? Are there new ways of identifying when is that customer ready to buy whatever it is we're selling? And are there new ways of connecting to these potential customers and how to improve the experience customers have? I think it should be more forward looking and that the board needs to ask more questions about, like you mentioned, what is this all costing, right? So we're doing all these efficiencies on one end, but what is it really costing on the other end and how is it impacting at the end of the day the growth of the company? Because it doesn't matter if a company is super efficient and cost effective. If they're not growing, they're not going to succeed. And I think the focus needs to shift right now, I think, on growth versus, okay, "we'll tweak this a little bit here and there and we got rid of 500 people," but does it make the company really better. I think there was, I read something about Meta announcing some layoffs. They're gonna have more layoffs, they're putting a lot of money into AI everything, and what's that going to do to the company. I mean, before why it was all about the metaverse, that didn't work. I mean AI obviously is here to stay and everybody needs to think about it and talk about it, but let's talk about it in terms of growth. And I think boards need to drive that conversation. But to do that, they need to understand what AI can do in the first place, which is that missing element, I think, at a lot of established companies right now. And they're still adding CFOs and CEOs, which are great, as long as they understand really what the potential is. So I think more "forward-looking" is what's needed right now. Go forward.
Yeah, there's one thing I was going to add. I don't think it necessarily has to be one answer for one company. Even in our own company, while my mandate for finance may be cost reduction, but underwriting is using it for pricing, like pricing excellence and responding to sales quotations much faster, which is a business growth story. And the sales and distribution organization, they're asking "oh, how do we service 1,000 locations in Korea faster than we've been ever able to?" So I think at least in the larger companies, I think that's happening to some extent. And I think each sort of function needs to figure out, right, like how they're aligned to a business strategy, how are they bringing value. Someone might be bringing margin value. Someone might be bringing top line value, et cetera. And then I think just picking up a point about the board also doesn't know. And I think that permeates the organization at all levels. Saurabh and I have had this discussion before. I've called it a, you know, failure of creativity or a gap in creativity. Where the people who understand the technology are going to those who understand the business and asking "What do you want to do? What do you do? What use case should we do for you?" And the other side is like "I don't know what this technology can really do or don't have that understanding or that creativity necessarily." And they look at it in the context of what they do today. And then that's why you end up with these incremental use cases. So that, I think, sort of talent gap, thinking gap, and creativity gap are pretty big issues.
Tom, you talk to a lot of clients. What's the top two things that are holding clients back from moving beyond these death by a thousand POCs?
Yeah, look, I think one is maybe culture, right? I'm still one of those. I write checks. And I know my bank account can get automatically solved with the electrical company and all that jazz. But it's not even that in some cases that they believe or don't believe the technology or how integrated. It's just the ways that things have been done, the way the business operates. And so a lot of times we're in these discussions. Can we articulate a beautiful business case? Can we map out, as I call it a line-item level? Every automation and how that fits end to end. Yes. But getting the business through a very sophisticated change management process to change how they operate, to get the people to think differently, whether it's adopting or whether it's execution, that I would say is probably number one. And then the second challenge that we see, we're not looking end to end. We're looking at maybe tasks within processes, processes within a higher function, not end to end. And as a result, we keep getting islands of automation again, just more sophisticated islands of automation. And we're being tasked because great clients are saying that you have to sign up for cost reduction or business outcomes. It goes way beyond productivity and cost. And when you do that, you do have to take an end-to-end look. And you do have to understand, how am I going to re-engineer the business as much as the process? And then all the underlying dominoes that affect the technology and so on.
So there would be those two things, Matt. Anything to add in terms of what's holding us back?
I think that executive understanding sometimes can be an impediment. I think there's a desire to spin up a million different initiatives. Sometimes that is a distraction, because I think focus on what you're looking at something new is really important. And then when I look at just my overall shared services organization, one of the things that's definitely holding us back is the readiness of the middle management layer. The people that have spent the last 15 years doing an absolutely brilliant job of leading large teams of people and driving operational efficiency have been through one transformation of intelligent automation. But now, this is just, you know, scaring the life out of them of how do they manage a team of humans and agents and what do they need to do to is empower their more AI-native junior colleagues. So there's a lot of fear that I see, especially in my middle management layer. So that education for them is going to be really important because that's either the accelerator of the transformation that we need to deliver or the place where it gets blocked.
It's similar to what you were saying, Sameer, as well, right? Is the lack of, I think you mentioned lack of curiosity or imagination.
Yeah, creativity. And, you know, I think it's also, yeah, it's like a different way of thinking now, right? I think people who have grown up, well, not grown up, right? But to your point, they've thought in the lens of process re-engineering and, you know, here's what I do today and I'm going to do the spotted automation. I'm going to do lean and this and that. Many of them are having a really hard time transitioning to the opportunity today because they're almost too structured in their thinking, too incremental in their thinking, and now here I come along, it's like I don't even care about the process, give me the outcome, right? Here's data, I need outcome, data… that's a simplistic way of saying I do care about the process, just to break that barrier, right? And many, many people are having a really hard time transitioning to that way of thinking.
So, Matt, if I can ask you, there are a lot of business leaders both on the provider side, technology side, and enterprise side. What's your advice on the one thing, and keep it to one. What should they start doing when they get back to work hopefully tomorrow and everybody's staying here for the whole day? And the one thing they should stop doing?
I think we can all do is pick is really invest in changing that one thing and not be distracted by multiple things. And I think the one thing that we can all stop doing a little bit is believing the hype before it's the reality. And I think if you just focus on that one thing, changing that, and stop believing some of the own hype that you're creating for yourself in your AI journey and be realistic of where you are, that would be good. Because, you know, I've definitely been guilty of it myself, and I'm writing the email to the executive team to tell them the progress we're making. I'm like, let's just peer that back because there's too much hype in that.
So focus on one thing. Yeah. Rita, what's one thing that people should do and one thing people should stop doing?
Think bigger, think more forward thinking and more imagination. So I love what you said, being more imaginative. What can we do in a totally new way? And maybe stop thinking about what we're tweaking right now, because maybe all these processes we've heard so much about, maybe they're not necessary anymore. Maybe they go away. So kind of basically rethinking the whole operation.
Yeah, no, I think have clarity of what you're trying to achieve, right, as you've talked, right. You're playing the revenue play, margin play, cost play, whatever. That'll bring clarity to your vision, speed up things, and think big. What should you stop doing? I don't do too many things, I agree with that 100%, right? Just that there's already limited talent in this space, you know, whether it's functional people, technical people, people like, who actually know how to architect multi-agent tech models and things like that. There's like five people, right? Let's focus them on what actually matters and will get you what you need in terms of your business strategy.
Stop doing? I think we gotta stop the resistance because when I look at my organization, like I have brilliant data scientists and engineers and process gurus. We can engineer, we can architect everything. When I get to the operations side of the house, there's, I don't know if I'm quite sure. I don't know if my client's ready for it. And we need to cannibalize faster, right? We really do. And we need to press on our clients to take that journey with us. So end the resistance, embrace, and go faster. Because I just think the potential is there, but we're hindering it ourselves by just not jumping forward.
So I think it's all of you are saying AI is ready. We are not. Is that much? Yeah. I think that's, that's where we were heading. Any, any questions from the audience?
Thank you, which I agree with the other thing is I feel like there's no process owner, executive, or the C-suite or board on his point of standing up to take ownership. Is this a good time to appoint a chief process officer within an organization that could ride herd on that?
I think probably organization to organization, it depends. I think based on where we are at JLL, that's basically the role that the executive board has asked me to take on as part of the strategy 2030 with a big belief that thinking about outcomes and really doubling down on the process is going to help us get to those outcomes. But I do think the foundations of data and process are so important if you do want to get to outcomes that you can measure. Otherwise, you spend a lot of time lost at sea. And I think there are too many chiefs already.
I was thinking from yesterday, I think Rita hit it and think that Accenture also hit it yesterday. We have to be careful about, I think, doing things right. This is really the acceleration right where you start. This is what we've been working toward, and it's getting easier to do. But that's not going to give you the payback, right? So we can do things right but not be doing the right things. And I would like you to think about, or if you guys could possibly, if you could estimate how much growth there would be, and absolutely at a customer level, because that's the only place revenue comes from, right? How are you going to grow and sell more using AI? And AI is, I think, even bigger than we're talking about, right? Because customers are using it. It's going to be embedded in your products. And so you kind of went there, right? It's going to be in, even when on the finance side, right? All these are going to be redesigned to add more value to customer, not to reduce the customer's cost, but to reduce the benefit they have. So if you would just, if that number was so big, right? And Rita, you could go the big number. The three others can talk about, well, if we had that number, what would we do with it? Because I think that's where we're kind of stuck right now. Are the operations and modernizing everything, digitizing everything, that's not going away. That's going to be, you know, we're all at some point of maturity. But what do you think that number could be in your firms? And does that justify? Who do you go and tell that number to? Do you tell it to the board?
Yeah. I mean, the way we are playing it, and I can't disclose the number, but we are tagging, like in insurance, there's this thing called combined ratio. I think of it as margin, right? So it's a margin play. So are we ultimately going to have more income, more profit, via these channels. So ultimately, as a reference to our strat plan process, that's where we're saying there's a certain uplift in our combined ratio that we are aligning against these efforts. And I actually see that not just in insurance. I look at professional services firms, et cetera, in particular. I think people are becoming more of a margin focused. I think at least in the coming few years, that seems to be the play, which is relatively common.
I'm going to add that I've heard one larger consulting firm. They're growing by 30% to 35% right now, primarily because they're basically providing AI consulting services. They're taking advantage of the opportunity to really capitalize on that and to grow revenue. I think they also focus a little bit on their internal processes and making that more efficient. But for them, AI is a huge revenue growth factor.
Tom, if I can ask a second layer to that question, how much is this going to cannibalize WNS and how much is it going to grow WNS?
So I don't know if I can tell you the cannibalization number because I'm probably pushing faster than where we are. But the growth side of it, and you really hit on an interesting point because we're working with a couple of clients and almost an intercompany ecosystem. We have a consumer goods company and, as you know, I'm in finance and accounting. Okay, you're really not going to help on the revenue and the growth side. Well, hold on. When there's disputes and you're doing deductions management, and now you're working with strategic clients and their customers, it's a customer experience. And you're in the bed of "how do they sell to their distributors" and "how do they get product on the shelves." And so when you start tying our systems and data and putting AI and connecting with theirs, it becomes kind of an integrated ecosystem where they're growing and we're growing because now the deal that we structure with them is based on an outcome of growth versus "I'm going to reduce your DSO" or "I'm going to have a high NPS score"… blah, blah, blah. Now you're really starting to say that the end outcomes of the customer's customers are what are going to increase that growth value chain. And so I think we're on the embryonic stage of that, but we're piloting that with a couple of clients.
Oh, that's fantastic. So on that note, thank you. Thank you, Tom, Sameer, Rita, Matt. Fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for sharing some time.
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