Phil Fersht — CEO, HFS Research[00:21]
Hello, everyone. It’s great to get some time today with a great figurehead who’s been around our industry for quite some time and somebody I got to know fairly well in recent times as well. His name is Angan Guha. So Angan, maybe you could introduce yourself a little bit to our audience, a bit about where you came from and what you’re doing today.
Angan Guha — CEO, Birlasoft[00:45]
Awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much, Phil, and thank you for doing this with me. So look, I mean, I grew up in Mumbai, so I’m from India. That’s the city I grew up in. I was born and bred in Mumbai. And, believe it or not, I had my first job in Mumbai as well, when I joined Wipro pretty much from campus. I went to engineering school, B school, I joined Wipro from campus. I stayed in Wipro 30 years. And, you know, I worked in the Mumbai office at Wipro for almost 12 out of the 30. The other 17 years, I kind of moved around the globe a little bit. I worked in England, I worked in Saint Louis, worked in New York, worked in Dubai for a bit. So, yeah, I’ve been around the block, but just had the one job before I came into Birlasoft 2.5 years ago.
Phil Fersht — CEO, HFS Research[01:15]
Wow, wow. So long time with one big company. And can you share a little bit about maybe your influences along the way, maybe what inspired you to eventually branch out and head up a business yourself?
Angan Guha — CEO, Birlasoft[01:58]
It’s a great question, Phil. You know, after working in one company for 30 years, and as you will imagine, in our times, that’s a pretty long stint. Very few people stay in a company that long. And as I grew up in the industry and Wipro, and over the 30 years, I did many, many roles. I mean, I was an account manager, I was a vertical head. I ran geographies. I ran business units. I did it all. I was a hunter at one point in time. So after getting a fair amount of experience, doing different variety of roles over 30 years, you know, I had two choices to continue doing what I did in Wipro, and I had a great run. Wipro is a great company, gave me everything that I needed, and for the most part, whatever I am is because of that company. I could have really kind of continued there and retired, but when this opportunity came up, I thought one of the learnings that I didn’t have was to lead a public company. Now, there is a little bit of a merit in doing that because you get to manage boards, the regulators, the investors, and that kind of learning is a great learning. Though I used to run a very large business at Wipro. When the opportunity came, Birlasoft is a much smaller company, but it’s a progressive company. There were a lot of good things that were happening in Birlasoft before I joined. So I thought to myself, look, here is an opportunity to create an impact, a very good impact for a firm which has been there for 30 years. So when this opportunity came up, a combination of getting an opportunity to lead a public company and to create an impact, what brought me to Birlasoft.
Phil Fersht — CEO, HFS Research[03:34]
So you know, you’ve pretty much been in the India heritage services industry since its inception, really. So, have you seen anything like what’s happening today with tariffs being discussed and some implemented, potential trade wars going on, that sort of thing. Do you think that’s going to have ramifications on the outsourcing space?
Angan Guha — CEO, Birlasoft[04:14]
So Phil, from an outsourcing perspective, obviously any regulatory changes or when administrations do whatever they are doing today has an impact because it impacts our clients. So from that perspective, it obviously impacts us. But I also feel that, you know, the heritage outsourcing business or the technology business has been very resilient over periods of time, and we’ve seen so many disruptions. We saw the financial crisis, we saw COVID, and if you look at every single disruption like that, we only came out stronger. So I feel from outsourcing per se as an industry, it may not have an effect, but our clients obviously will get affected in many ways, so from that perspective, we will get affected. But in our industry, the hardware industry, which is also as much part of tech, will obviously get impacted quite a bit, but I’m a firm believer, whether you’re a hardware provider, whether you’re a services provider, a technology provider, a consulting provider, I think, over time, we will figure out a way as an industry to get over it and come out stronger.
Phil Fersht — CEO, HFS Research[05:28]
Right, right, OK. And we’ve obviously seen, you know, as much as 20% growth in the investment in global capability centers in India. Do you see them benefiting from all this volatility even more than the third parties? How do you see this starting to evolve?
Angan Guha — CEO, Birlasoft[05:49]
Yeah, so Phil, again, I come in from the third party world, so my view will be from that perspective. But look, I mean, the global capability centers in India is a great advantage for the nation. I mean, it’s creating an incredible amount of employment in the nation. I think the very fact that most global companies now feel that the talent out of India can go up the value chain and you’re really building capability rather than cost arbitrage out of India is great for the industry, from my perspective. I think there is a space for both organizations or both areas, if you will. You know, the third party companies like ourselves, like Birlasoft, I think we will have a great opportunity to continue to grow our business, and a lot of work will come our way, whereas I also feel the capability centers out of India will do very well. They’re there for a specific reason. A lot of regulatory work, a lot of high-end product work will be done out of India going forward, and I think that is where the GCCs will do very well. And I feel a company like ourselves or anyone in the IT industry will also benefit because we will get a lot more work around engineering, we’ll get a lot more work around automation. There is tremendous use of, you know, agentic AI and AI to drive work. So I feel it’s a big win, and I think it will benefit both the sectors, whether you’re a third party or you’re a GCC.
Phil Fersht — CEO, HFS Research[07:25]
So how does this challenge a company like yourselves? You’re on a smaller scale provider, you know, that obviously has the benefits of more agility, closer, more intimate client engagement, etc. but you don’t necessarily have the benefit of scale. What would you say are your biggest challenges now to stay ahead in this market space and find that next threshold for growth?
Angan Guha — CEO, Birlasoft[07:49]
Yeah, again, a great question, Phil. So I think for companies of our size, which is sub-billion dollars, and quite frankly, even at the $1 billion or $2 billion dollar range, the key will be differentiation, right? So how do you differentiate oneself from the pack is going to be key. Now, as you know, Phil, there are so many IT companies and, over time, IT companies have been resilient, they have grown. So clearly there is a lot of interest even through via investors and private equity and everybody on the IT services space. So the key here will be differentiation. So for a company like Birlasoft, one of the things that we as the management team board are discussing is how do we differentiate and create that capability to serve our customers. I also feel the ability to understand technology and understand domain is going to be very, very crucial. So one is to understand technology and create differentiation on that, but also the ability to understand the domain and marry domain with capability is going to be a game changer. And for that, the focus is going to be important. So look, a company of our size can’t serve all customers all the time, so we’ll have to identify vertical segments or even sub-segments, identify those clients where we’re going to be invested in and then serve them understanding their business and the technology around it. I think that is going to differentiate ourselves from the other players in the industry. But by and large, Phil, I think most companies will grow, you know, we’ve had two years of little muted growth. I mean, I’m talking about the industry, Birlasoft, obviously, last year we had great growth, this year, probably not as much, but I think over time, I’m very bullish that the growth will be back in the IT services space over the next couple of years.
Phil Fersht — CEO, HFS Research[09:47]
Interesting. You know, you talk about agentic, we talk about Gen AI technologies that I think are very, I mean, our enterprise clients are very aware of what’s happening. There’s a bit more fear and paranoia in the industry than there was. How effectively can Indian firms themselves get ahead of this, because this is a different type of tech, it’s much more business focused. It requires sort of different heuristic mindsets, different types of alignment than the traditional coding and technology. How well do you think Indian firms are going to stay ahead of this and what are going to be the upsides and downsides to the shift in technology that’s going on?
Angan Guha — CEO, Birlasoft[10:33]
So I think for the Indian firms, first of all, we have to get the right talent and train the right talent. I think it’s a mindset shift, Phil. So for all our colleagues, the ability to understand what AI can do for the business, and more importantly, what AI can do for themselves, right, is going to be key. And Phil, I remember when we met the other day, you made a very important point that stayed with me forever. And believe it or not, I say it all the time. That, you know, jobs will not be lost because of AI. Jobs will be lost because people don’t understand AI. I think you made that point, and that’s very well said, Phil, because I truly believe that that’s going to be true. So leaders who do not understand how to work with AI probably will become irrelevant. But leaders on the other hand, who understand how AI can benefit our own company, benefit our clients, and can get onto the bandwagon quickly, will really be the winners. So first is the talent. So talent needs to get reskilled at scale in my mind. And then the ability to understand a client’s business and how AI can, you know, help our client achieve their objectives is going to be the second big thing. Look, I’m a firm believer in AI and very bullish on the Indian IT industry and the talent. I’m sure we will learn it very quickly. We’ll get over it. It’s very different ways of working for all companies, but look, Phil, where’s the choice? There is absolutely no choice. We have to do it, otherwise, you know, the industry will become irrelevant going forward. So look, I’m forever optimistic. I think most companies, big or small, will be able to, you know, get over this wave very, very quickly.
Phil Fersht — CEO, HFS Research[12:17]
Yeah, so what do you, you know, we talk about technology taking over a lot of typical routine tasks. Could be moving data from one screen to another, it could be processing an invoice, it could be writing a line of code. What do you see as the role of people in our workforce moving forward as we get ahead of this and we try and combat fear with more positivity?
Angan Guha — CEO, Birlasoft[12:42]
So I think the leadership has to play an important role, Phil. So first of all, giving the right messages to the team, getting them to understand what is the world going to look like in the new era, to help them navigate this entire situation, get them trained, I think leadership will play a very important role. People in themselves have to become learning people. I mean, if you’re not learning every day at your job, then obviously, you will get sidelined or will get irrelevant. So from that perspective, every individual will have a role to play as we get into this. And Phil, look, it is not only about repeatable work, of course, I mean, agentic AI will have a great impact on all the run work, whether you’re running a BPO business, AMS business, testing business, or what have you. But eventually, I think agentic AI will also start making an impact on all the work that is development, right? And as we move from purely development work to platform-based development work, which is where, you know, services as a software becomes so crucial, I think the learning bit is going to be so very important for everyone. Now, whether you’re an industry person for the last 30 years or you’re an industry person for the last 3 days, it doesn’t really matter. Everybody will need to learn.
Phil Fersht — CEO, HFS Research[14:04]
Yeah. So, you know, in that ilk, what career advice do you have for ambitious young professionals in this current environment? You know, what are you looking for as you look at the next round of talent that you want to invest in?
Angan Guha — CEO, Birlasoft[14:20]
So I would say that, you know, for young professionals, there are 3 things. It’s a very exciting industry. So, I would urge a lot of people to become a part of the industry because it’s going to be very exciting going forward. And in many ways, Phil, you know, we’re changing the world, right, in so many different ways. We’re impacting lives. The Indian IT industry now upwards of $300 billion is really making a difference and making an impact. So I would say that, you know, come join the industry, be very ambitious, learn a lot, and learn every day. Don’t ever think that I know it all, because if you ever start getting into that mode, the technology will change very quickly and you’ll be left behind. But all I can say, the times are very exciting, future looks incredibly bright, and as technology changes the world like we’ve never seen before, I think we, in the Indian tech business are in the center of it all. And that is pretty exciting for any new leaders who joined this workforce. So I guess that would be my advice that, you know, keep learning, be ambitious, be cautious of what’s coming up, but let’s not get frightened. I mean, it’s an exciting world out there.
Phil Fersht — CEO, HFS Research[15:23]
Right. OK, so you talked about you had a good year last year, you said this year, you’re finding things a little more challenging. What do you want to see happen to our world in general in 2025? What would be your one ambition?
Angan Guha — CEO, Birlasoft[15:52]
So my one ambition is to, you know, serve my clients, achieve their objectives, right? One is the numbers and profitability, of course, we are a listed company, so that’s important. But I think what’s even more important is if I can serve my clients to achieve their objectives. If I can become a firm where I can attract great talent who can come in, work, achieve their dreams and make the company get to the next scale, and if I can achieve these two things, I think I will have achieved everything. The numbers are one, but to me, the core important thing, and I’m very passionate about this is, how do I train talent for the future? And Phil, you asked me a very interesting question earlier, how would talent out of India be able to, you know, navigate this curve, and if I can be one of the enablers to help my talent navigate this curve and become fit for the future, I think we would have achieved a lot.
Phil Fersht — CEO, HFS Research[16:49]
That’s a fantastic answer. And I really enjoyed listening to you for the last 15 minutes or so. It’s been fascinating. It’s definitely been an interesting time, growth time for mid-sized companies in this environment, and it’s good to hear how you’re thinking about talent in the future for Birlasoft. So I really thank you for your time today, Angan. I look forward to.
